Applying for a mod after bankruptcy...?

[MomtoCon]

Hi everyone –

I had posted once before regarding our hell with BoA but as with everyone, things have changed 10 times over since then. So, first, quick backstory –

Things began going downhill for us in 2008 when my husband and I were both laid off. He is a Union electricianand with the economy the way it’s been, it’s been a bumpy road. I was out of work from May 08 to Sept 08; Mike was out from July 08 to Sept 08. We tried for a modification but our paperwork was lost….twice. By the time things got on track, we were both working again and we made too much money.

In July, 2009, Mike was laid off again. I was working as a paraprofessional in ourschool district so did not get paid from 6/30 to 9/15. Our only income was Mike’s unemploymentcheck. Tried again for a mod, again it was a mess. It seemed I was emailing the OOP once a week for a year. Mike wentback to work in Oct, 09. In January,2010 we were offered a forbearance – putting our past due amount back onto our loan. Again, since we were both working, we did not qualify for a mod. We took this as at least it was something that helped.

We almost….almost!...made it through 2010 fully employed. But, Mike was again laid off mid-December 2010. We knew this time it would be a very long haul, as he signed into the Union hall on page 40. Unemployment and my salary were not going to cut it so we went to see a lawyer who had helped my sister with a mod. With our situation and debt, he first recommended Chapter 7 bankruptcy. We really did not want to go this route, but in the end, it’s what we did.

In July, 2011 Mike decided he could not go through thi semployment roller coaster anymore and he took a job outside of the Union Hall, working for the county. The good news is steady employment, the bad was a 40% salary cut. Even after the bankruptcy and with a mod, things will still be tight for us.

This is where things stand now – our bankruptcy was discharged in January, and we did reaffirm our home. We have a first mortgage with BoA for $299,000 (the house valued 6 months ago for $270,000). We also have a second mortgage for $75,000 but on the advice our attorney, we stopped paying that almost a year ago. He feels they will settle with us. (Sorry – I’m a little confused about the rest of this). Our second mtg is with BoA but now it is with Old Republic (??) We get the random letter and phone call from them, but that’s really all. Their last settlement was for $54,000. The lawyer feels they will go lower (when and if they do, we would have to take a withdrawal from Mike’s annuity – we do not have the money to pay that).

We now want to start the mod process with BoA for our first mortgage. With what our income is now, we are at 38% with our mortgage payment. They will not speak to us, though, until they receive the discharge of our bankruptcy from the courts. It ha sbeen a month and they said it could take up to a year!! We had been two months behind (since early last year), but still making payments – we decided not to pay this month’s payment, putting us 3 months behind, hoping they would deal with us – but, no,we still get directly transferred to the bankruptcy department. We feel like everything is in limbo and have no idea what to do from here. Getting through the bankruptcy was a huge load off, but what will happen with our home is still hanging over us. We hadn’t planned on using the attorney for the mod, but now we are wondering if we should? We don’t know if we should be paying the mortgage or not – and we feel like we are playing chicken with the second mortgage – that one really has us confused on what to do. Bottom line is that with the salary cut, we cannot afford the first and second mortgage as the payments stand now. We really need help with both. Any advice on how to proceed from here? Four years of stress over all of this has definitely taken its toll on us....

Thanks so much.

[MIDSOUTH]

my advice would be to go thru HOPE and find out what docs you need to send and then send them yourself. Do not wait for BOA to send you a mod package. Everything you need to request a HAMP is on the internet and most noteworthy,..on this site. There is no "directive" that states that a bank needs to send you the "package" to get started. Once you fax them the docs, with a coverletter indicating what is included in the package and stating your request for HAMP mod--call them and ask that your request be escalated.

This would be a good place to start, not only becuase it will be proactive on your part and give you some satisfaction of doing something, but also puts BOA on notice that there has been a formal request and they are not supposed to "foreclose" on you. They can "dual track" (i.e. begin the process of foreclosure) but are not supposed to "actually" foreclose as long as there is a formal HAMP request.

Hope this helps

[yomann]

A few brief comments ..........
1. It is a fact that many banks will not speak to you until your BK is discharged. Some banks will ask you to get a letter from your BK attorney giving them permission to speak to you. Why do you say your discharge may take up to a year ? After your 341 meeting with the BK trustee, it should normally close in 60 days.
2. Your 2nd has zero equity. They will not take any action. I agree with your attorney not to speak with them at all and exentually settle for 5-10% of the loan balance - this could take anywhere up to a couple of years. Basically ignore them till you modify the 1st, and even beyond that point.
3. Regarding your 1st, you did the right thing to go 90 days late, so now you have a better chance of getting attention. Your BK actually helps you, as you are now free to walk away, if you choose to ........
Getting your 1st modified is priority #1. I would concentrate on that. Escalate to the OOP at the bank, and be in constant communication. Read the stories and strategies used by others on this forum.
4. You can do the mod yourself. If you are feeling overwhelmed, trust your attorney, and his fee is reasonable, you may want to engage his services.
5. There is a company that advertises here. Charlie Rose is their CEO. They can help you prepare a financial package to submit to your bank.
Get a free phone consultation from them, and see how it goes.
I've been down your road before, and there is light at the end of the tunnel.

[MIDSOUTH]

yomann,

Momtocon stated that the BK was discharged in January.

[MomtoCon]

Thank you both for the replies! And yes, Midsouth is right - we were discharged in January and we have the court document, but I guess the court sends BoA a document and they will not speak to us until they get that. That's what we were told today could take up to a year, depending on the backlog of bankruptcies in NJ. Getting a mod for the 1st is definitely our priority right now, though the constant calls from Old Republic do freak us out (I realize now that BoA had them insure our 2nd mtg and deferred it to them at some point). With the cut in our income, we do feel that we are in a better place to get the mod - we do dread going through the process AGAIN. But, having been there before, our hardship letter is ready and we will start to gather the necessary documents - and continue ignoring the 2nd mtg for now. I did find the thread about settling the 2nd mtg so that has also been a wealth of information. I think we will attempt the process ourselves and if we start getting the run around, we'll talk to our attorney. It just floors me a little that BoA still won't talk to us, though we are desperate to get the process started. They will not take a fax of our discharge from us - it has to come from the courts.

[MIDSOUTH]

How I know what I know is that our BK was discharged in February 2012 and just before the order was due to be signed, I contacted BOA and let them know that I was going to be sending in the request for mod. They would not be "specific" with me so I researched this forum and also contacted HOPE and found out the docs required and did it myself. I faxed BOA in January 2012 the docs and then contacted them (after faxing a letter from our BK atty to BOA-we had not been discharged at that point) and requested it be escalated. Was assigned my "one point of contact" at BOA 4 days later. Our file has been submitted to underwriter as of this past Monday.

[MomtoCon]

How I know what I know is that our BK was discharged in February 2012 and just before the order was due to be signed, I contacted BOA and let them know that I was going to be sending in the request for mod. They would not be "specific" with me so I researched this forum and also contacted HOPE and found out the docs required and did it myself. I faxed BOA in January 2012 the docs and then contacted them (after faxing a letter from our BK atty to BOA-we had not been discharged at that point) and requested it be escalated. Was assigned my "one point of contact" at BOA 4 days later. Our file has been submitted to underwriter as of this past Monday.

MIDSOUTH - thanks again, and a question for you - and sorry, this may sound stupid, but what do you mean when you refer to HOPE? Is the the MHA website information? I see they have a list of docs needed as well as a "request for assistance" form - would I submit that to BoA?

Thanks!

[MIDSOUTH]

MIDSOUTH - thanks again, and a question for you - and sorry, this may sound stupid, but what do you mean when you refer to HOPE? Is the the MHA website information? I see they have a list of docs needed as well as a "request for assistance" form - would I submit that to BoA?

Thanks!

No worries! I didn't know ANYTHING about this stuff until I came to this site. Yes, the HOPE people can be found on the MHA website. The front page has scrolling info on it--but I just noticed that it doesn't precisely state that it is run thru HOPE (non profit). Yes, the "request for assistance" form would be in your "packet" to BOA. You can read what I sent here The countrywide screw just keeps getting tighter --hopefully the link will work when I hit submit!

What I did was gather all the docs and then create a cover letter with a listing of every doc included and then a fax coversheet and faxed the whole kit and kaboodle! The first set was 20 pages and then HOPE told me about more docs and I also updated profit and loss statement and pay stub...so the 2nd batch sent was 50 pages (including coverletter and fax coversheet). Remember to write your acct# on EVERY piece of paper you submit. Then give it a day and call to ask if it was imaged. If so, ask how long it will take to get a "one person contact". they will probably tell you about 2 weeks. If you want, ask them to escalate...then call every 4 days to ask for status.

Because so many good people went before me, I was able to take their advise for what works and did not work. It is sad and maddening indeed, the number of people who lost their homes when these programs were first getting started and protocols were not in place/ or just flat out ignored by the banks

Good luck to you!

[MomtoCon]

Midsouth, it's hard knowing that everyone here had to go through hell (or are still going through hell) themselves in this nightmare, but people like me are grateful that you share what you've learned!

I have a few more questions for you or anyone else...

1) on the MHA site, I was looking at the "Request for Modification" form and it seems like I need to contact someone at MHA to have it filled out (based on the "Interviewer section" - is that something we need to do, or can we just fill it out ourselves and submit it with the package?

2) Regarding the monthly expenses - we are not currently paying our 2nd mortgage and haven't in close to a year. Do we include that payment in our expenses??

We hope to have everything together by Friday to fax over - we're mainly waiting on our 2011 taxes from the accountant right now.

Thanks again!!

[MIDSOUTH]

To answer your questions:

1. Fill it out yourself and include it with your packet. The "interviewer" section is for those people who had help filling out the form. (i.e. like from HOPE)

2. I would include it...depending on:

if it is determined that including the 2nd would cause you to be denied for a HAMP, (too much debt and not enough income)--then of course you would NOT want to include it. However, if it helps you to qualify for HAMP and you have not decided what you are going to do with the 2nd at this point, then include it.

Once you have submitted your application, you will have about 1 month (going from my timeline so far) before your file gets sent to the underwriter. Maybe, someone else on here can help you determine if you should or should not include it. When I went thru the counseling session with the HOPE people, they told me what I should do given the financial numbers I gave them. (we have a 2nd also)

there is a good thread on here called "settling your 2nd) you should read.

[coverexile]

my advice would be to go thru HOPE and find out what docs you need to send and then send them yourself. Do not wait for BOA to send you a mod package. Everything you need to request a HAMP is on the internet and most noteworthy,..on this site. There is no "directive" that states that a bank needs to send you the "package" to get started. Once you fax them the docs, with a coverletter indicating what is included in the package and stating your request for HAMP mod--call them and ask that your request be escalated.

This would be a good place to start, not only becuase it will be proactive on your part and give you some satisfaction of doing something, but also puts BOA on notice that there has been a formal request and they are not supposed to "foreclose" on you. They can "dual track" (i.e. begin the process of foreclosure) but are not supposed to "actually" foreclose as long as there is a formal HAMP request.

Hope this helps

What if you did not get a discharge? Ours was not discharged and the trustee is still looking into any
assets to liquidate. I put on our loan mod.application we were in BK and my acct.manager never alluded
to it. She just keeps telling me to call back next week, call back next week, call back next week!

[MomtoCon]

Just an update to our situation - it has been 5 months since our bankruptcy was discharged and we stopped paying the mortgage and we have not heard a word from BoA - not a letter, not a phone call, nothing. We did decide that we would use an attorney for our modification as we just do not have the energy to fight with BoA again - 3 years of hell, and the bankruptcy, has taken all the fight out of us. My husband met with our attorney today (who did our bankruptcy) and says that by his calculations, we meet the criteria/numbers to qualify for a Mod.... he said the way BoA is going about it now is that there will be one or two meetings with someone from BoA...??? Has anyone done that/heard of that?? (just an fyi, in case I didn't mention it, our loan is owned by Freddie Mac so we do not qualify for the current settlement).

Again, on the advice of our attorney, we have not paid the 2nd mortgage in about 15 months. We randomly get a call from Old Republic, which we don't answer, but we haven't received any correspondence from them in months.

So, the roller coaster begins again.....it's terrifying and I'm dreading it but I'm hopeful this can be resolved once and for all....