Loan Modification Forum - LoanSafe.org - View Single Post - Cut to the CHASE

Hodgini66 · 06-18-2009, 11:42 AM

This is a tale of greed, divorce & stupidity.

With a bit of luck and alot of fees, I'll hopefully be able to convert to a success story.

I've noticed all these threads can be exhaustive, so I'll do my best keep this short and sweet.

however, this first post IS rather lengthy because it includes alot of required info & background. More effficient to disclose than to answer dozens of questions. If I don't answer your Q, its likely because your answer is in my first post.

My hope is that this story may serve as reference & a lighthouse for how to get this done right the first time, when dealing with this behemoth (Chase). This process has proven not only frustrating but "doing it yourself" seems almost beyond sane.

History/Background:
Living in SoCal Lap of Luxury (a.k.a. vaccumm), Home of the Real Housewives of Orange County, Ladera Ranch.
Retarded Ex Wife filed for divorce in Feb 2006.

Refinanced with Chase in January 2007.
Estimated home market price @ time of refi = $1,350,000

Jumbo = $980k
2nd = $280k

Payments:
$5,100 for 1st (Interest only)
$1,800 for 2nd (P&I)

$150k of refi proceeds held by atty in trust acct, to pay mortgage, taxes & insurance.

Chasing Market Downward ("To catch a falling knife"):
Listed house for sale shortly after closing of refinance @$1,450,000.
Ex Wife (aka "Retard") insisted upon higher-than-market listing price (holding out for more), me & the house are now "hostages".
Chased market downward for ~12 months while listed on market (HER greed & stupidity).
Three offers received early on, highest offer was $1,270,000 in July 2007.
Ex wife refused or killed all other offers, actually countered HIGHER than listing price on the highest/last offer.
July 2008 - Took off market, I moved back in.
Market is now collapsed.
House now upside down ~$350k (as of June 2009)

Income & Expenses:
I gross $169,000 per year, ~$10,000 per month net (W-2 wages).
Court Ordered support = $6,000 per month (~60% of my net, due to 3 kids).
Property Taxes = $13,000 per year ($1,000 per month)

Cannot afford mortgages AND support payments at same time.

Borrowed money to try to keep current while began the process. Almost ran company in the ground, financially speaking, "borrowing from the till".

Attempted Loan Mod Process:
Started talking (ad-nauseum) with Chase back in March 2008 when Divorce Atty's trust account balance ran dry.

Discussed Short Sale.

Chase required I list the house and that I WOULD have to makeup for any short fall. WTH??? How's THAT going to happen?

Decided to gamble and hold on for dear life, borrowed $ from company to stay current, started asking about loan mods last fall (September).

Chase proved it was a gigantic "Black Hole" - Gave info over phone countless times to both departments (1st and 2nd trust deeds), lost all my info twice, faxed several more times, passed me around to several different people, played "Let's start this whole thing over again " game, etc. etc.

Sent hardship letter, tax returns, pay stubs, statements and a note from my Mother.

IMPORTANT NOTE: Trying to deal with ONE of the two departments was bad enough. Both departments proved silly, redundant, pointless, fruitless, futile, pointless, redundant, fruitless, futile, pointless, redundant, in the end.

It proved pointless necause of the numbers and the fractured way they "do business" (1st & 2nd mortgage depts. don't/can't/won't work together).

I stopped making payments in Feb 2009.

Game Over. I Call Your Bluff. Whatcha Got?:

June 11: Phone conversation with the "Foreclosure / Loss Mitigation department last week:

"I can't access all the info you sent. I see you sent all the info but THEY are in Arizona and I am in Texas. We need to start from scratch, over the telephone."

ROFL... Surprise Surprise!

"We can offer you $5,600 per month payments, principal, interest, insurance and taxes. This equates to 41% of your GROSS income including all 'permitted' expenses, including an allowance of $1,500 per month standard living expenses (due to 4 people in the house in your region)."

What about my Court-Ordered Child and/or Spousal Support?

"Sorry but No. Can't include support in the calculations.

Your sale date is set for October 3rd."

What about the second mortgage?

Can you negotiate on behalf of them as well (both mortgages are serviced and likely owned by Chase)?

"Sorry, No. Can't negotiate the second mortgage at the same time. You'll have to contact them directly.

Your sale date is set for October 3rd."

Heeeyyyy... That's Greeaaat! (sarcasm).

Thank You for playing! (sarcasm).

Pfft... Glad I waited to hire an attorney! (sarcasm).

=====================================

A New Day Dawned (on me).

Time for a NEW game with a new strategy...

June 15: Called one of those boiler room/law firms advertising on the local radio. $4,000, 50% retainer down, no guarantees, talked to a "salesman" who sold me a bill of goods I already knew about from reading these Forum threads (looking for RESPA violation-tactics).

No thanks, I'll use a real BK attorney.

June 16: Consultated with a bankruptcy attorney to "take point" on negotiating with Chase.

Debt-Foregiveness Taxataion is a substantial concern of mine. I do not qualify for Economic Stimulous Primary Residence Debt Forgiveness exlcusions due to the history of the mortgages/debts. Therefore, if I were to receive a 1099-C for $350k (debts forgiven), I would then owe the Gub-Munt well over $100k+ in taxes. I've done my research and looked at the options. INSOLVENCY filing along with my tax returns CAN excuse this tax burden without a bankruptcy BUT I need to become more educated. Filing the Form 982 (Insolvent Form) is apparently a fairly well-hidden secret.

During my initial phone consult, I made it clear i do NOT want to just file for BK, it likely wouldn't prevent Foreclosure anyway. I want to keep the house if possible (my credit is now ruined) and force Chase's two departments-divided, to negotiate in concert (they'd lose over $350,000 ANYWAY if they decide to proceed with foreclose).

Moral Conscience Footnote: I'm not asking for debt forgiveness. Nevertheless, I am now prepared with the knowledge that I won't owe taxes on it should they force a foreclosure.

I just want to reset the clock and push back when they get their rightfully-owed, investor's money. If they would prefer to LOSE their investor's money by foreclosure, then that is their perogative.

Atty sent over a 40 page New Client Induction" pdf file, requesting copies of everything under the sun. I am now scanning, copying, filling out forms and organizing like a banshee.

STRATEGY RECAP:

Hire BK atty to make a threat: "Either you two bozos/departments who refused to work together in the past START negotiating with me and my client and in good faith, or we'll spread this mess out over the next year or two in the court system."

I'll post again when I have new information/developments. Hope this helps somebody, someday.

06-18-2009, 11:42 AM	#1 (permalink)
Hodgini66 Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 67 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTW/F/M Award(s): 0	Cut to the CHASE - Jumbo & 2nd Mod This is a tale of greed, divorce & stupidity. With a bit of luck and alot of fees, I'll hopefully be able to convert to a success story. I've noticed all these threads can be exhaustive, so I'll do my best keep this short and sweet. however, this first post IS rather lengthy because it includes alot of required info & background. More effficient to disclose than to answer dozens of questions. If I don't answer your Q, its likely because your answer is in my first post. My hope is that this story may serve as reference & a lighthouse for how to get this done right the first time, when dealing with this behemoth (Chase). This process has proven not only frustrating but "doing it yourself" seems almost beyond sane. History/Background: Living in SoCal Lap of Luxury (a.k.a. vaccumm), Home of the Real Housewives of Orange County, Ladera Ranch. Retarded Ex Wife filed for divorce in Feb 2006. Refinanced with Chase in January 2007. Estimated home market price @ time of refi = $1,350,000 Jumbo = $980k 2nd = $280k Payments: $5,100 for 1st (Interest only) $1,800 for 2nd (P&I) $150k of refi proceeds held by atty in trust acct, to pay mortgage, taxes & insurance. Chasing Market Downward ("To catch a falling knife"): Listed house for sale shortly after closing of refinance @$1,450,000. Ex Wife (aka "Retard") insisted upon higher-than-market listing price (holding out for more), me & the house are now "hostages". Chased market downward for ~12 months while listed on market (HER greed & stupidity). Three offers received early on, highest offer was $1,270,000 in July 2007. Ex wife refused or killed all other offers, actually countered HIGHER than listing price on the highest/last offer. July 2008 - Took off market, I moved back in. Market is now collapsed. House now upside down ~$350k (as of June 2009) Income & Expenses: I gross $169,000 per year, ~$10,000 per month net (W-2 wages). Court Ordered support = $6,000 per month (~60% of my net, due to 3 kids). Property Taxes = $13,000 per year ($1,000 per month) Cannot afford mortgages AND support payments at same time. Borrowed money to try to keep current while began the process. Almost ran company in the ground, financially speaking, "borrowing from the till". Attempted Loan Mod Process: Started talking (ad-nauseum) with Chase back in March 2008 when Divorce Atty's trust account balance ran dry. Discussed Short Sale. Chase required I list the house and that I WOULD have to makeup for any short fall. WTH??? How's THAT going to happen? Decided to gamble and hold on for dear life, borrowed $ from company to stay current, started asking about loan mods last fall (September). Chase proved it was a gigantic "Black Hole" - Gave info over phone countless times to both departments (1st and 2nd trust deeds), lost all my info twice, faxed several more times, passed me around to several different people, played "Let's start this whole thing over again " game, etc. etc. Sent hardship letter, tax returns, pay stubs, statements and a note from my Mother. IMPORTANT NOTE: Trying to deal with ONE of the two departments was bad enough. Both departments proved silly, redundant, pointless, fruitless, futile, pointless, redundant, fruitless, futile, pointless, redundant, in the end. It proved pointless necause of the numbers and the fractured way they "do business" (1st & 2nd mortgage depts. don't/can't/won't work together). I stopped making payments in Feb 2009. Game Over. I Call Your Bluff. Whatcha Got?: June 11: Phone conversation with the "Foreclosure / Loss Mitigation department last week: "I can't access all the info you sent. I see you sent all the info but THEY are in Arizona and I am in Texas. We need to start from scratch, over the telephone." ROFL... Surprise Surprise! "We can offer you $5,600 per month payments, principal, interest, insurance and taxes. This equates to 41% of your GROSS income including all 'permitted' expenses, including an allowance of $1,500 per month standard living expenses (due to 4 people in the house in your region)." What about my Court-Ordered Child and/or Spousal Support? "Sorry but No. Can't include support in the calculations. Your sale date is set for October 3rd." What about the second mortgage? Can you negotiate on behalf of them as well (both mortgages are serviced and likely owned by Chase)? "Sorry, No. Can't negotiate the second mortgage at the same time. You'll have to contact them directly. Your sale date is set for October 3rd." Heeeyyyy... That's Greeaaat! (sarcasm). Thank You for playing! (sarcasm). Pfft... Glad I waited to hire an attorney! (sarcasm). ===================================== A New Day Dawned (on me). Time for a NEW game with a new strategy... June 15: Called one of those boiler room/law firms advertising on the local radio. $4,000, 50% retainer down, no guarantees, talked to a "salesman" who sold me a bill of goods I already knew about from reading these Forum threads (looking for RESPA violation-tactics). No thanks, I'll use a real BK attorney. June 16: Consultated with a bankruptcy attorney to "take point" on negotiating with Chase. Debt-Foregiveness Taxataion is a substantial concern of mine. I do not qualify for Economic Stimulous Primary Residence Debt Forgiveness exlcusions due to the history of the mortgages/debts. Therefore, if I were to receive a 1099-C for $350k (debts forgiven), I would then owe the Gub-Munt well over $100k+ in taxes. I've done my research and looked at the options. INSOLVENCY filing along with my tax returns CAN excuse this tax burden without a bankruptcy BUT I need to become more educated. Filing the Form 982 (Insolvent Form) is apparently a fairly well-hidden secret. During my initial phone consult, I made it clear i do NOT want to just file for BK, it likely wouldn't prevent Foreclosure anyway. I want to keep the house if possible (my credit is now ruined) and force Chase's two departments-divided, to negotiate in concert (they'd lose over $350,000 ANYWAY if they decide to proceed with foreclose). Moral Conscience Footnote: I'm not asking for debt forgiveness. Nevertheless, I am now prepared with the knowledge that I won't owe taxes on it should they force a foreclosure. I just want to reset the clock and push back when they get their rightfully-owed, investor's money. If they would prefer to LOSE their investor's money by foreclosure, then that is their perogative. Atty sent over a 40 page New Client Induction" pdf file, requesting copies of everything under the sun. I am now scanning, copying, filling out forms and organizing like a banshee. STRATEGY RECAP: Hire BK atty to make a threat: "Either you two bozos/departments who refused to work together in the past START negotiating with me and my client and in good faith, or we'll spread this mess out over the next year or two in the court system." I'll post again when I have new information/developments. Hope this helps somebody, someday.